Curse

BlueNovember · Mar 26, 2008, 11:54 AM // 11:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by davdman0100

well are u tellin me that u know how jagex runs its drop rate?.

GW != Runescape.

On topic, interesting read. Lamentable persistence and admirably scientific approaches/tests.

ccruzp · Mar 26, 2008, 06:16 PM // 18:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by davdman0100

lol i dont understand why people are like "its obviously fake because u cant get same drops"....well are u tellin me that u know how jagex runs its drop rate? isnt it possible that these two players literally figured it out? just because it seems impossible doesnt mean its not true, u have no reason to say its not true because u dont know if this is how the drop rate runs or not.
just my opinion.

Yeah I think they pretty much discovered what governs drop randomness, i mean a computer cant simply create a number at randon to calculate drops, and afaik all random number generators fall into a patern over a (ridiculously large) number of "numbers generated" so why bother/waste resources? basing the randomness of drops and other "random" generated data on the clock time would yield satisfactory results since a player cant control the servers clocktime and is unlikely to figure all the math involved to exploit it.
Also as we know some people from Anet used to work at blizzard, and the random generated dungeons from diablo 1 are based on your computers clock time =)
But maybe the fact that both players had the same ip helped triggering a glitch? sry but i didnt read all the pages to see if someone tested it w/ different ips, if someone has nvm this.
Sry for the bad english.

Titan Silencer · Mar 26, 2008, 08:05 PM // 20:05

this discovery is amazing. I believe that you're right, but we need more testing in different areas, different builds,...

I might try it when I get the time to get a decent farmer on my secondary account...
the thing I could try is the zaishen chest thing, like someone suggested, you never know

Antithesis · Mar 26, 2008, 08:50 PM // 20:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by ccruzp

But maybe the fact that both players had the same ip helped triggering a glitch?

Wrong dude...different IP addies and ISP's in two separate locations.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Titan Silencer

this discovery is amazing. I believe that you're right, but we need more testing in different areas, different builds,...

This zone is used for time-sync testing because it's easy to see if the mobs are synced. If the mobs aren't synced, the drops are different.

We've got an argument going in another thread about AoE vs single foe drops. It's been suggested that SoJ vs SV isn't as valid for testing as an AoE Nuker vs SV. If we can get the same or different results, it'd make interesting reading. Skinny Corpse we need you...you're our only hope

Skinny Corpse · Mar 26, 2008, 10:47 PM // 22:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antithesis

We've got an argument going in another thread about AoE vs single foe drops. It's been suggested that SoJ vs SV isn't as valid for testing as an AoE Nuker vs SV. If we can get the same or different results, it'd make interesting reading. Skinny Corpse we need you...you're our only hope

Yes, I've been following the thread and I'm curious about such comparison as well.. I'll have to sit down and figure out a way to proceed in a near future.. It'll
be interesting, for sure.

Abonai Laguna · Mar 27, 2008, 12:58 PM // 12:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skinny Corpse

Yes, I've been following the thread and I'm curious about such comparison as well.. I'll have to sit down and figure out a way to proceed in a near future.. It'll
be interesting, for sure.

well mate, ill go aoe.

teotuf · Mar 27, 2008, 02:41 PM // 14:41

how did you make sure the sync was right on the spot? did you guys just ran towards the exit at exactly the same time?

Skinny Corpse · Mar 27, 2008, 03:27 PM // 15:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abonai Laguna

well mate, ill go aoe.

Copy that.

Maybe an elem duo, sliver vs. aoe could be something to check out?

Quote:

Originally Posted by teotuf

how did you make sure the sync was right on the spot? did you guys just ran towards the exit at exactly the same time?

That's right, side by side towards the sunset.. erm.. exit.
But sometimes side by side doesn't work due to latancy etc, so
you might have to adapt to such circumstances.

Nechtan Thaumaturge · Mar 28, 2008, 03:50 AM // 03:50

First off, excellent post, Skinny Corpse.

I borrowed another account, pulled out my laptop, and tried looking into the AoE vs. Sliver question. I decided to try Fahrunur, since that seems to work well, but so far I've only managed to synchronize successfully once. The results weren't particularly conclusive. Twenty-eight drops were identical, the Sliver Armor build got eight unique drops (unique in the sense that they weren't shared), and the AoE build got four unique drops.

(The unique drops aren't shown in the screenshot)

Both characters were E/Me. The builds in use were:

Sliver Armor
Stone Daggers
Stoning
Ether Renewal {E}
Stoneflesh Aura
Kinetic Armor
Earth Attunement
Mantra of Resolve

Sympathetic Visage
Ancestor's Visage
Crystal Wave
Teinai's Crystals
Wandering Eye
Stoneflesh Aura
Kinetic Armor
Ether Prism {E}

I had to cobble together the Sliver Armor build since that character didn't have most of the newer skills. Neither build is particularly quick, incidentally, so the influence of the rate of kill wasn't really tested. I did get multiple simultaneous kills with the AoE build, though, but not for groups larger than three due to scattering.

Using AoE on the Fahrunur run is a bit tricky since most groups aren't homogeneous and a few have some healing skills, so creatures tend to die at different times. This is a concern since the core question is whether or not killing many things at exactly the same time triggers a different drop mechanism.

I think that in order to test the AoE vs. Sliver idea more thoroughly a different location must be used, specifically somewhere that's nuke-able, ideally in hard mode. It would also be nice if there were a group located close to the entry portal that could be used to judge synchronization. Any suggestions?

Skinny Corpse · Mar 28, 2008, 05:29 AM // 05:29

Good job, Nechtan Thaumaturge.. very interesting.

I agree, for the aoe testing Fahranur might not be the best place.. but I
actually haven't found any other place where you can determine sync that easily.. but we'll keep looking for sure.

I'll try to do some testing in Fahranur this weekend to get some more results.

hallomik · Mar 28, 2008, 02:37 PM // 14:37

I thought of a way to test this.

In Fahranur, there is an area where 12-15 scales congregate near the entrace to the undead section. In Normal mode, there is no scattering, so it would be simple to test a simultaneous kill (with something like radiation field) versus a slow, sequential kill (e.g., degen one at at time).

Unlike the raptor cave, in Fahranur is it far easier to tell if you have achieved a synchronized entry by the composition of the mobs.

Suggested approach:

1) both farmers synch enter in NM.
2) compare mob composition and kill first group of scales to ensure successful synched entry.
3) go directly to scale "pit" area and farm differently.
4) screenshot results.
5) repeat a few times and end controversy.

Skinny Corpse · Mar 28, 2008, 03:54 PM // 15:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by hallomik

I thought of a way to test this.

In Fahranur, there is an area where 12-15 scales congregate near the entrace to the undead section. In Normal mode, there is no scattering, so it would be simple to test a simultaneous kill (with something like radiation field) versus a slow, sequential kill (e.g., degen one at at time).

Unlike the raptor cave, in Fahranur is it far easier to tell if you have achieved a synchronized entry by the composition of the mobs.

Suggested approach:

1) both farmers synch enter in NM.
2) compare mob composition and kill first group of scales to ensure successful synched entry.
3) go directly to scale "pit" area and farm differently.
4) screenshot results.
5) repeat a few times and end controversy.

That is indeed the big mob we need for the test.. thanks for tip!
I totally overlooked that one.

Nemo the Capitalist · Mar 28, 2008, 04:16 PM // 16:16

wow g8 guide

Terrokian · Mar 28, 2008, 06:44 PM // 18:44

So in essence to sum this whole farming issue up are you saying that once you hit an area all drops are already figured out for you?And that drops will be specific to your char build?

Skinny Corpse · Mar 28, 2008, 08:11 PM // 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terrokian

So in essence to sum this whole farming issue up are you saying that once you hit an area all drops are already figured out for you?And that drops will be specific to your char build?

From the testing we've done it shows that the drops are determined
upon entry into a zone.. but not specific to you build, as we've used different
builds and professions.

Devonas big Sister · Mar 28, 2008, 09:05 PM // 21:05

It may be farfetched, but i come up with another interesting theory:

The meaning of "bad spawn" could change drasticly with this. Since you guys are really into science

you should look for this to even consider my theory plausible:

Check the way your spawn at the start is build up and compare it with the quality of the drops. Check Spawn location, patrol directions and professions in the spawn. Maybe you should also check the server IP/ID in the Ping-Dot.

One extra thing is crossing my mind. I know you guys are out there: the GW BigFile Data readers. There is a very very small chance that it is possible to read and decode a formula that determines the drops/droprate/quality.

If we consider the above theory to be true and we can get our hands on that formula (legally), then consider what it could do for the wealth ingame.
It would make exclusive skins available for anyone without really dropping the prices.

Time to pass the baton...

Antithesis · Mar 29, 2008, 12:48 AM // 00:48

I think you'll find the gwdata file contains only graphics and physics of the engine. This saves us downloading the weighty data like textures when entering an instance.

It doesn't contain loot or AI info, that'd be loaded from the server when entering the instance.

Phineas · Mar 29, 2008, 02:24 AM // 02:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antithesis

I think you'll find the gwdata file contains only graphics and physics of the engine. This saves us downloading the weighty data like textures when entering an instance.

It doesn't contain loot or AI info, that'd be loaded from the server when entering the instance.

In which case it could be found in your RAM? Check your RAM and then decide whether it's worth continuing

Guardian Of Demons · Mar 30, 2008, 01:15 AM // 01:15

This awesome im gonna try it myself with a buddy

Mr. Undisclosed · Mar 30, 2008, 02:38 AM // 02:38

Just curious, dunno if its been mentioned before. What if the drops you don't share are because of your build?